phpfox upgrades life time support/update user

Hi there,

I have seen some familiar names here especially data66.

I have purchased my first phpfox license back in early 2007. Spent XX,XXX on the site, taken it to over 100,000 users in less than 2 years. I have had my fair share of frustrations with phpfox but nothing which I have experienced today when I am told that I will have to purchase the licenses again to download version 4.

I just wanted to know if they really did not honor their life time support/upgrade commitment when they released version 4? Is there any process I am not aware or missed to get it upgraded?

Please help.



  • edited December 2016


    You might check our forum posts here as Raymond and I left phpFox a few months ago and work for SocialEngine now. He sold it last year btw. Just so you know.

    This site and our support, our BryZar (mine with my partner), support phpFox clients though, as well as other scripts.

    Yes, phpFox charges for access to v4 if you didn't download it before. It costs about $250 for access from them.

    We do upgrade sites btw, in case you decide to purchase their access to the v4 version.

    The support is also no longer lifetime. They did announce about the support access stopping but not about the lifetime licenses. They did answer though regarding it before.

  • You can tell if you have access to v4 by logging in to your client area and clicking your license. If you have access, it would show the v4 download link.

  • I think @metro posted about being robbed by phpfox in a similar manner awhile back...

  • I find the permission to download v4 a bit confusing. chodhry states that he first bought his license in 2007 and doesn't have access to v4. I purchased my first license in 2012 and DO have access to v4. He's been a customer a lot longer than I have.

  • I just looked and have been a customer since 09 and have access to 4.5 in my download area

  • @data66 said:

    Yes, phpFox charges for access to v4 if you didn't download it before. It costs about $250 for access from them.

    So if you downloaded v4 before at any time, then you have access. If you never did, then you don't have access.

  • thanks for the replies guys.

    @data66 did they announce anything about that? I mean regarding downloading it in a specified time or else not having access later?

    The reason, I got interested was there recent RTL support. Since I did not get any such notification so I was in the assumption that I would be able to download it as having life time access.

    Is there anything I can do to download it without having to pay?

  • @chodhry said:
    thanks for the replies guys.

    data66 did they announce anything about that? I mean regarding downloading it in a specified time or else not having access later?

    The reason, I got interested was there recent RTL support. Since I did not get any such notification so I was in the assumption that I would be able to download it as having life time access.

    Is there anything I can do to download it without having to pay?

    We, Ray and I, wanted to do an announcement to let clients know that there would be no access if they didn't download the script. We were not allowed to. Since it had been promised for clients to have access, it wasn't a decision we liked but there wasn't anything we could do. BTW, everyone blamed Ray for a lot of things that were not his decision. This is one of them.

    You can try sending them a ticket but so far, all anyone gets is the standard discount to bring the price down to $250. Unless YN changes their mind about it.

  • I have two licenses I think from the end of 2011 and both will let me download 4.5. Maybe they have or have set a cut off date? Originally I thought I had to pay for but they are active in my downloads.

  • Yes, there was a date of it but I don't recall the date. Is it possible you downloaded the beta or something? Any download of v4 would have qualified you to continue to get this version. V5 will probably be a different story though. I think the access to upgrades also has a time limit. Meaning if you buy the $250 now, you have to buy it again in x months. That's how they had wanted it anyway. Not sure if they are sticking to that. Best to ask how long the $250 lasts and when it needs to be bought again. Then, take a screenshot of that for proof.

  • It seems most script providers are moving to renewals just look at Microsoft, Adobe etc. but they should consider a workaround like maybe having to purchase support for 12 months at say $50 to qualify for upgrades to latest version during that period. May be a good compromise and still generate revenue.

  • Yes I agree that they need a renewal fee but $250 is a huge fee. Especially since that's just for script update access and doesn't include any support.

  • Cometchat does this too and its balls.

  • They are probably copying it from use to be able to buy their product and keep it for as long as you want. Now the yearly price is about half of what it was to purchase the entire product. But remember their price is a yearly subscription price which means in two years you paid for the product but don't get to keep that is crooked.

  • If they all priced it like Microsoft I would be a HAPPY camper! I use xubuntu 90% of the time. But I do use the $99 per year OneDrive & Office for five accounts! So one computer & one phone or tablet on each account gets 1Tb cloud back-up & one copy of office. I really just use the OneDrive :) that's 10Tb's of back-up for $99! I have all five copies of office installed and that's just extra free stuff. lol

    I think John is right that is the future of software and as long as the prices stay fair it will make them money and save us money. I didn't do the Adobe because for what I wanted it was about the same as buying it every year :( and I don't buy mine every year. Last upgrade was about 3 to 4 years apart. :)

  • edited December 2016

    The problem for people like me in Africa is exchange rates kill it for average person. $299 is almost R5000 a full months salary for most and more then the average salary of $50 to $500 the average person earns. looking at a world population of almost 8 billion improving internet access and reducing prices would go whole lot to increasing profits and revenue with a cheap but but higher usage model. I remember a guy had a $5 dating script and a few other things that made him a good income as it was affordable and a quality product. His site is here

  • edited December 2016

    That was Flashchat for $5. I used it for years on my vBulletin forum. It was crazy good. But he stopped updating it and with the Flash problems of a couple years ago I had to stop using it.

    I hate the subscription based programs, like what Adobe does. I play around with photography and would love to have Photoshop. But I refuse to pay a monthly subscription for it. I'd buy it outright in a heartbeat. I maintain an old old old Mac Mini with an old old old OS on it so I can use my old old old version of Photoshop. LOL. They still offer their Lightroom program as a purchase, which is what I use instead.

    I've been looking at Wordpress themes. I've noticed that many of those are now subscription based too. You used to be able to buy a theme for like $50 - $100 and own it forever. Many of them now are $10 - $30 per year. I'm not a fan of that business model. At all.

  • @Kirkus
    The advantage of subscription based software is you always have the newest version and patches. If you use it for work and it is your source of income it's the only way to fly. :)

    If you're a casual user and don't use it or need it daily then buying every few years works fine. I have a couple friends that are digital graphics designers the stuff they do in photoshop is incredible! And it's their daily job so it's a tool that is always the newest and best version. They love the subscription based Adobe it was costing them $800+ per year to keep up.

    I have had this happen so many times! GRRRRR you buy a version then a few months later things change and a new version is out! And you're just minutes past the FREE updates! It just happened to me again with some pricing software I use daily for work. ($1,200) I just paid off last years upgrade and a new version is out!!! I would love a LOW monthly subscription for that software!

    And you can still buy Adobe CS 6+ full install on amazon for around $600. :)

  • edited December 2016

    You know, I was thinking that using Photoshop as an example was silly of me. At somewhere around $800 to buy it outright (when you could by it outright), you're correct that a subscription plan makes a lot more sense -- especially for people who NEED the current versions as soon as they're released (I wouldn't be one of those people). In fact, anyone who would choose to purchase it over buying a subscription should have their head examined. For me to buy full versions of the Adobe software I would use, namely Lightroom and Photoshop, I'd pay close to $1,000. Or I can subscribe to their Photography plan, which includes both programs, for $9.99/month.

    I was still very surprised to see some of the WordPress themes being sold on a subscription basis, however. That, I would never do (unless they were all that way and I just had to have one. LOL.)

  • I have a few wordpress customers that won't buy anything! They spend lots of time making their sites look good and manage to do the whole thing with only a hosting cost.

    I do like lifetime options as long as the price isn't crazy! Because if you buy lifetime say three or four times the yearly and they close up shop sooner use lose your money. :( Yep I have been dinged by that once. :(

  • This change of policy is actually a breach of purchase agreement. All old clients should have access legally due to the agreement that was agreed upon purchasing. It sounds illegal and I bet we could sue YN big time and win easily. I mean it would easily go to settlement. EZ. A lifetime guarantee does FLOAT over to the new owner if he is floating over their licenses as well.
    Otherwise why don't we all jsut start opening shop and resell v3x since we were dropped support? If you get what I mean.
    Legally I believe that just like life insurance and all those bought by new companies, do carry over. In fact they are legally FORCED to send you an agreement and you could legally challenge it.


  • Cybohmoodb,

    Sorry to say you are 100% wrong with the current information we have. In regards to a insurance company (and I used to work at Midwest Security which was pretty big) that since that is one of the their main products of course they would continue as that would be part of the contract agreement with the new company. Also, if there are any premiums still coming in why wouldn't they.

    Now if you can find the document/court papers when they filed and change their name to Moxi that indicate that per the agreement all previous lifetime licenses will carry forward then legally you have something. But since at that time the company was in financial crisis and probably why Ray sold part of the company I cannot believe the new company Moxi9 would agree to take on the unlimited licenses with no financial gain. I can only assume that like in the U.S. the laws that would apply would be where the company is form and dissolved. You can yell and scream and complain all you want but until someone can locate the document you would be throwing money into the wind.

  • edited January 2017

    I don't disagree with you John, I'm just skeptical THAT IT'S LEGAL. If you believe I am 100% and not even .0001 % close, hey that's fine. I am not one of them who bought it 7 years ago and wouldn't waste my $$$ fighting such an old script but I do feel their pain. Heartless company with no Moral Ethics whatsoever. I mean look at arrowchat and all those other scripts out there. They gave old clients 50% off or even 60. In regards to phpfox and it's owners, there was absolutely no compassion anywhere. I don't see it happening anywhere or did I miss it???? Can somebody correct me on this? Black Friday's don't count ok? LoL.

  • Just to clarify. Moxi9 is Ray's company. It is not associated with phpFox, not since the sale.

  • First and most important...who gave me the little penguin profile image...was that you data :)
    Second, I reread my statement and I didn't mean to imply that specifically you were screaming and yelling. I was referring to that every 4-6 months someone brings it up again and it is a waste of time and energy because nothing will happen without documentation. Even if you were a stock holder and just above $40,000 invested as a regular have no rights to even get documentation of how many people voted to sell the company. I found this out and the group I was in even had a lawyer fund that led to nowhere.

    I disagree with your statement that not only you have just displayed but others have done the same and it is what gets me to defend the new owners. I do feel bad for the users who purchased the lifetime licenses. But...and it is a big say the company is Heartless with no Moral Ethics and absolutely no compassion anywhere is flat out wrong. First, they took on a money losing company at the time of the purchase. They could have just let the company die...which I thought was going to happen between March and November the year they switched to Moxi9. Some jumped ship and took our phpfoxpro which I invested thousands of dollars and they got up and walked away. Instead they pushed it through...maybe not the best way but we are now at 4.51 and still here.

    They also gave anyone who had v3 the opportunity to download v4 for free. Now I here whining about that as well...that now some decided to finally download and cannot. It reminds me of a college girl who did not return her books on time and was fined for the cost of the books as the school ordered new books for the new coming students. She thought she would get around the system and drop her books off anyways in which she was informed to come pick up her books since they were her books now. Two years later she comes back looking for her books explaining that they were her books and we had no right to get rid of them. Well are wrong. Everything has a time limit...whether it is a sale, a coupon or any offering. If you missed it...well that is life so you live and you learn.

    Phpfox in the past was charging a fee every six months to get upgrades...that has not been done in awhile and I give lots of credit to phpfox for not charging during these times when the software has been somewhat buggy. But...they did not have to do that but they did.

    Now I am not going to do the math again...but if you look on the store and find the best free app out there. I say free app because most people will download the free apps just to try out. So if you find the most downloaded I think it was around 300 downloads or maybe a little more and multiple that by say a average of $350 per license you would get you $105,000 total estimated license profit. Now that includes V3 owners as well as V4 owners over the past 2 years. So I have 4 licenses from V3 any many others upgraded for free as take that profit and cut it in half to say what they made these past two year...yeah...that is not much.

    Some may come back and say...well they make a ton in charging service cost. Well...that is up to you. I know I have not spent a penny for service to PhpFox or YouNet. The reason why is that what I pointed out was items that helped their product and they seen the value of my suggestions. Yes, some of the stuff I suggested to this day have not been implemented...but I guess if I want it bad enough I will have to pay like the rest of the world.

    So to say that Phpfox is Heartless with no Moral Ethics and absolutely no compassion is what I would expected from someone who didn't get their way and not you since you indicated you didn't purchase it 7 years ago so I am somewhat confused. I can only assume you are standing up for the ones that paid a small amount of money compared to the expectation of lifetime support and I do commend you for that but please step back and look at everything and how messed up everything was back then...and appreciate how lucky we are to have survived that mess and actually improve on what we had.

  • Yes, I added default avatars. Those are the pengies I made. I wish Vanilla had male/female avatar options.

    Re: Brodev/ had to leave. There was too much behind the scenes. He got caught. Business declined from it.

    Paying for license renewals is not a bad business practice. I think charging so much is just too high when the script is still in beta. It is not stable IMO. If it were, my sites would have been upgraded. As it is not, and never seems like it will be, my sites need to also change scripts. I just can't keep them on it.

  • A crook by another name is still a crook. No matter how you dice it... Lifetime support AND Lifetime licensing should be exactly that! We have every right to whine; if we so desire to - whether or not we get our way! Will ; younet do anything to honor that, probably not. After all there is new bait out there.

    The facts are what they are. No alternative facts here. The myth that v4 is a better script is far fetched; I laugh in the faces of the day dreamers who think it is.

  • LOL "Alternative facts" now THAT killed me. ROFL! My kids were not allowed "alternative facts" but I'll stop there as politics is too heated for this forum. Would be fun on another though.

  • I agree with data "Paying for license renewals is not a bad business practice." But making people pay for something that is broken? I don't care if they lost $105,000,000 making people pay for something that doesn't work correctly is wrong. If I bought a new Ford and it didn't drive and they kept fixing it & fixing it, then told me I need to buy a new one? LOL I don't think that would fly ever with anyone no matter how much Ford lost or if another company bought them. I feel bad that they have lost money I don't want that to happen to anyone. But if you grab the bull by the horns you better hold on. :)

    And I used a few things from Younet on my Fox site and I was never very happy with them. But now I'm on Social Engine and VERY HAPPY yep that was me dancing in the street! Well all but SEAO addons! GRRRR LOL

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